From: jimruttshow8596
The concept of Relational Ontology and the Christian Trinity explores the philosophical argument that a triadic, fundamentally relational structure is the ontological primitive for all conceptual and ontological characters [00:07:45]. This perspective suggests that if the Christian Trinity is understood correctly, the Christian God becomes logically necessary for any possible world, including a multiverse [02:37:37].
Foundational Concepts
To understand this argument, a hierarchical stack of concepts is necessary, where some thoughts or concepts necessarily imply deeper ones [00:12:07]. For example, velocity imports concepts of position, change, and time [00:12:29]. At the deepest level, an onto-epistemological event serves as a precursor to the split between ontology and epistemology [00:13:02].
Core deep concepts include:
- Being and Becoming: Encompassing change and the capacity for being to change [00:13:30].
- Unity and Multiplicity: Also referred to as sameness and difference [00:13:49].
- Continuity and Symmetry [00:13:58].
- Reality: Defined as the relationship between subject and object, not solely mapped to the object [00:14:12].
These concepts are considered more fundamental than notions like space and time [00:15:27]. For instance, multiplicity of experience predates the ability to conceive of or participate in time, as one must first distinguish “now” from “before” [00:17:56].
Relational Ontology
The argument posits that relationship itself is the ontological primitive [00:23:24].
- Contrast with Substance Ontology: Unlike substance ontology, which allows for the imagination of an object separate from relationships, relational ontology asserts that the concept of relationship intrinsically invokes the relata (the things in relationship) [00:26:02].
- Materialism’s Foundation: Materialism, and the scientific move of decontextualization, implicitly relies on the supposition of substance ontology, where an object qua object is considered valid in and of itself [00:26:49].
- Relationship as Reality: From this perspective, reality is found in the relationship between subject and object, making relationship the “most real” [02:12:12]. Any perceived object is a “first-order imagination,” a function of decontextualization [03:00:52].
- Minimum Viable Toolkit: If one seeks a compact, minimum viable toolkit for understanding reality, starting with relationship ensures consistency, whereas starting with object or substance immediately leads to contradictions as relationship “keeps showing up” [03:08:08].
It is acknowledged that this strong form of relational ontology, as expressed by Filler, is not universally accepted by philosophers [00:18:12]. Critics, including potentially Whitehead and Russell, suggest that substance and relationship must coexist and that one cannot be prioritized over the other [00:29:44]. However, even within this critique, the core concepts of unity, multiplicity, and their relationship (including being and becoming) form a minimum compact set for describing reality [03:30:30].
The Christian Trinity as a Triadic Structure
This discussion moves from philosophy to theology, specifically the Christian Trinity. The Trinity is described as having:
- Unity: In the sense of the Godhead or the Oneness of God [00:37:45].
- Multiplicity: In the sense of the three persons or “hypostases” [00:37:53].
- Relationality: The relationships between and among the persons are their intrinsic characteristic, e.g., “the father is in the son” [00:37:59].
This structure maps to the philosophical minimum set of unity, multiplicity, and relationality [00:38:09]. The term “hypostasis” is suggested to be more properly translated as “instance” or “instantiation” rather than “person” [00:44:06], to avoid anthropomorphizing the divine.
Examples of triadic structures in reality, like a three-person marriage, demonstrate unity (one marriage), multiplicity (three people), and complex relationality (between individuals and with the marriage itself) [00:41:05]. These real-world examples are considered derivatives or instances of a more basic structure, akin to a platonic form of the Trinity [00:43:50].
The Persons of the Trinity and Reality
- The Second Person (The Logos): John’s Logos is understood as that which all forms of logos (e.g., stories, language, incarnation) participate in [00:46:23]. It subtends the entire universe of ontology and incarnation [00:47:21]. The universe’s evolution over billions of years, including increasing complexity and the unfolding of natural laws, is seen as congruent with the Logos [00:51:01]. The Logos encompasses the substrate upon which all scientific investigation sits [01:02:47].
- The First Person (The Father): The Father’s essence is found in the relationship between the Son and the Spirit [01:09:40]. The Father “begets” the Son, representing lineage and distinction with continuity [01:09:30]. The Spirit “proceeds” from the Father, representing discontinuity or symmetry that is part of a larger wholeness [01:10:48]. The Father sets enabling and disabling constraints, transcendent to the system under investigation [01:11:59].
- The Third Person (The Spirit): The Spirit is the relationship of the Father and the Son, enabling both distinction and unity, and producing multiplicity and communion [01:12:50].
These components are part of a single, integrated whole, with relations between them and with the system itself [01:03:54]. Any “world” or reality is argued to consist of these components of the Trinity’s persons, which are more primitive than physics [01:05:30].
The Nature of Belief and the Trinity
The discussion culminates in the notion of belief as an “existential commitment” rather than a “strictly mental operation” [01:02:02].
- Pistis (Faith): Drawn from Plato, pistis refers to an embodied, deeply intimate relationship with a domain of reality, akin to mastery through engaged experience [01:35:55]. It is distinct from doxa (opinion, nominal belief) and episteme (intellectual understanding) [01:35:55].
- Livingness: Faith is described as “livingness” [01:28:20]—an ongoing expansion of one’s ability to be in relationship with reality [01:31:15]. This means not just intellectualizing, but fully grappling with and experiencing reality [01:30:04].
- Personal God: The nature of the Christian God, through the Trinity, is presented as personal, meaning it requires engagement not merely in thought or words, but in how one lives their life [01:30:13]. This involves a “full grappling of existence” and a “personal relationship with reality” [01:30:04].
This perspective aligns with the “religion that’s not a religion” concept, emphasizing practices and community to be more fully human [01:41:59]. The argument suggests that by living a life of deep engagement with reality, one is already cultivating “faith” in this sense, even without explicit nominal belief in the Trinity [01:39:35].
The Trinity and Biblical Literalism
The concept of biblical literalism is seen as a relatively modern movement, emerging from 19th-century American theological seminaries as a reaction to European biblical criticism [01:57:56]. Literalism is criticized for presupposing that scripture should be understood as journalism or science, whereas it is argued to be “radically deeper” [01:59:14]. Scripture, like great fiction, is considered more “true” in its ability to facilitate relationship with deeper patterns of reality across various cultures, providing access to a high-dimensional reality beyond analytical grasp [02:02:47].
The argument for the logical necessity of the Christian God, as revealed in the Trinity, is based on its coherence as a logical construct that is necessary for anything that could be called a “world” [02:22:21]. This means that the unfolding of reality (as seen through physical laws, emergence of complexity, and human experience) embodies these triadic principles, leading to the conclusion that the Christian God, particularly the Trinity, is logically necessary. However, the logical necessity of specific historical events like the Incarnation and Resurrection requires further argument beyond this philosophical discussion [02:07:50].
The discussion highlights how theology can be understood as the “discipline of reality” [02:23:25], subsuming both physics and logic by providing a more fundamental explanation for their existence and nature [02:22:58].