From: mk_thisisit
Professor Andrzej Targowski, a pioneer of Polish computer science and technology, and the father of one of the first digital cities in the United States, shares his insights on the profound impact of technological advancements, particularly artificial intelligence, on society and the future of humanity. The interview was recorded in California, near Stanford University, a location significant for its role in information processing revolutions, including the birth of Google. [01:01:01]
IBM’s Historical Role and Ethical Questions
Professor Targowski’s latest book provocatively titled “Did IBM act in the service of genocide?” delves into the historical involvement of IBM during World War II. He states that, indirectly, yes, IBM did act in the service of genocide. [02:47:40]
In the 1940s, punched card machines, primarily dominated by IBM, were the world leader, with IBM holding 85% of the market. [03:06:06] Computing centers were established in Germany, and even IBM president Tomasz Watson was honored by Hitler. [03:58:14] Although Watson later had to return his distinction due to American media criticism, the machines remained. [04:08:12] The European IBM center was moved from Paris to Switzerland for closer coordination with Germany. [04:25:25] These machines, sometimes called “Watson Machines,” were even present in Poland, with a statistical section in every concentration camp. [00:17:00] There was a center in Krakow employing hundreds of people involved with these machines. [05:50:49]
The core question Professor Targowski explores is whether IBM acted consciously or unconsciously. [06:11:47] He suggests that American companies, including IBM, had significant insight into what was happening in Germany through their people on the ground. [07:14:48]
“Americans, in short, they built the Nazi industry.” [08:24:28]
Professor Targowski’s personal experience with IBM, including installing the first IBM in Eastern Europe in 1966, gives him a unique perspective and deep respect for the company, while also allowing him to critically analyze its past. [09:16:16] He believes IBM’s global power today is partly due to investments made during World War II. [10:19:12]
Artificial Intelligence and the “Suicide of Civilization”
The book, while rooted in the Third Reich, is fundamentally about modern times and the challenges posed by new technologies. [11:32:56] Professor Targowski views the current state of technological advancement, particularly with social networks and artificial intelligence, as “some form of our suicide.” [00:33:14]
“We are killing ourselves especially with artificial intelligence. This is already you know the sentence has been executed.” [00:34:49]
He highlights how social networks are used for spying, profiling, and propagating misfortunes, making them difficult to control. [11:41:43] He notes that major tech companies (“megatech”) wield immense power, with market values vastly exceeding traditional industries. [12:52:13]
The Impact of AI on Work and Society
The development of artificial intelligence is financed by businesses spending billions annually, with Google investing heavily. [14:51:30] The President of the World Monetary Fund recently stated that 40% of jobs will be affected by artificial intelligence, potentially ceasing to exist. [15:32:38]
While AI offers benefits, such as assisting students and providing new insights, Professor Targowski cautions against uncontrolled development. [16:00:23] He draws a parallel to cloning, which is prohibited due to the potential for negative outcomes despite possible benefits. [16:30:17]
He recalls the “expert system” developed at Stanford 50 years ago, which proved slightly better than doctors at diagnosing meningitis. However, a critical question arose: “Who is responsible for the bad practice of the expert system?” [17:12:12] This highlights a lack of certification mechanisms for AI today. [18:15:37]
Professor Targowski compares technology’s development to a nuclear bomb. While the nuclear bomb has been a geopolitical stabilizing instrument due to its exclusive access, AI is widely accessible. [18:37:34]
He criticizes the “fourth industrial revolution” narrative, suggesting that unlike previous industrial revolutions that created cyclical work, the current one eliminates work, leading to societal challenges akin to the mass unemployment seen in Poland in the past. [20:09:59]
“This is the death of a human being because work develops us, work is necessary and and eliminating work, minimizing work, it’s practically suicide in the sense of higher humanities.” [23:01:21]
He warns that society is “absolutely repeating” the mistakes of the past, proudly heading towards a form of “suicide.” [22:14:04]
The Evolution of “Minds” in the Digital Age
Professor Targowski introduces his theory of different types of “minds” that humans acquire in the digital age, shaped by IT civilization and its tools:
- Basic Mind: Common sense, knowledge of nature, problem-solving wisdom. [29:54:19]
- Reasoning Mind: Developed through higher studies, enabling understanding of complex concepts (e.g., Earth is not flat). [28:23:44]
- Global Mind: Acquired through travel and language learning. [28:42:37]
- Universal Mind: Possessing a system of values. [28:56:06]
- Digital Mind: Ability to use digital libraries, e-books, and digital content. [29:06:05]
- Virtual Mind: Engaging with social networks, absorbing knowledge, confronting and adapting information. [31:18:24]
- Hybrid Mind: Involving physical alteration or enhancement, such as transplants (transhumanism). [31:58:20] Professor Targowski believes the hybrid mind should be prohibited as it leads to the creation of “superhumans” and new forms of human gradation. [32:13:30]
He emphasizes that these minds are not determined by biological evolution but by the IT civilization and the tools (like smartphone applications) that enable them. [33:34:38]
The Courage to Speak Out
Professor Targowski states he was “not afraid” to write his controversial book. [00:49:33] His fearlessness stems from surviving the Warsaw Uprising and an assassination attempt in the United States. [36:16:33] He believes someone has to speak the truth, especially when it challenges powerful corporations. [36:44:03]
He concludes with a thought-provoking observation: “When we are poor then we are smart; when we make some money we become stupid.” [37:13:31] He sees America as becoming “stupid” due to its economic prosperity, leading to a decline in political engagement and critical thinking. [37:22:58] Despite these warnings, Professor Targowski maintains an optimistic outlook, seeking to highlight outstanding Poles and their significant influence on global development. [38:55:00]