From: jimruttshow8596
Jordan Hall, a tech entrepreneur and longtime collaborator with Jim Rutt, embarked on a significant personal transformation that led him to become a committed and baptized Christian [01:37:37]. This shift emerged from his extensive work on societal transitions and the design of new civilizational structures, particularly his concept of “civium” [01:47:40].
The Search for Institutional Structure
Hall’s prior work on civium and “proto-Bs” involved exploring how to build new human-scale communities that overcome the limitations of large, centralized cities [00:44:51]. He and his colleagues, including John Vervaeke, realized that for communities to have strong bonds, communion, and a shared orientation towards a hierarchy of values that is durable, they need something akin to “religion” (lowercase ‘r’) [00:53:57].
He noted that successful communities require:
- Liturgy/Communion: Shared work that binds people into groups with a collective identity, enabling deep, high-quality relationships [01:02:01].
- Hierarchy of Values: A clear prioritization of what is most important, guiding collective choices and energy [01:02:50].
- Rituals: Practices and infrastructures that facilitate living according to these values and responding to reality’s challenges [01:03:08].
Initially, Hall approached this from an academic and intellectual perspective, attempting to design these structures from the top down [01:03:50]. However, he found it “really, really hard” to fabricate strong communities from scratch, especially with people already embedded in cosmopolitan urbanism, which tends to create “aligned hierarchies of values” based on the “lowest common denominator” [00:47:13] [01:04:17]. This realization led him to conclude that he “can’t do this” and “won’t even try anymore to do it” [01:04:53].
The Journey to Faith
Hall’s personal transformation began with a series of revelations and a shift in his understanding of fundamental concepts:
Redefining Spirituality, Supernatural, and Egregor
He observed that the contemporary secular understanding of terms like spirituality, religion, and faith is often “impoverished” and “upside down” [00:55:51]. He realized some of these concepts are “necessary” for human flourishing [00:56:04].
- Spirituality: Defined as the path to becoming a “holy integrated self,” healing traumas, and deepening one’s capacity to engage with the meaningfulness of life [00:57:19]. It is the practice of maximally taking advantage of healthy pain to become more “deeply ensouled” [00:58:15].
- The Virtual and the Supernatural: Influenced by Manuel DeLanda, Hall began to open his “ontological scope” to things that are real but nonphysical, such as the “virtual” [00:56:40]. This paved the way for considering the “supernatural” as having real “agency in the world” [00:56:57].
- Egregor and Agency: His exploration of egregor (collective psychic entities) led him to the conclusion that there is a “higher order way of thinking” about personhood and agency, of which human agency is a subset [01:00:47].
Discovery of a Wholesome Community
Hall and his wife, Vanessa, embarked on a “half-hearted run” to find a suitable place to live, eventually stumbling upon Black Mountain, North Carolina [01:05:10]. He was immediately struck by the “Good Vibes” of the town, noting that “human communion is somewhat real here” [01:06:41] [01:09:20]. This experience affirmed his “civium” theory: living in the “right place with the right people is actually radically fulfilling and meaningfulness is actually very easy if you’re in the right context” [01:10:14].
An invitation from new friends to attend their local church marked a turning point [01:10:30]. Despite a “deep allergy to Christian Church,” Hall decided to visit [01:10:44]. Comparing his experience in the “simple Country Church” with Jim Rutt’s attendance at an AI conference in the “Cosmopolitan Urban technos secular universe,” Hall concluded his experience was “really good” [01:11:20].
Hall described three profound experiences at the church:
- Vitality of the People: He observed a “profound sense of the aliveness, the vitality, the health and the wholesomeness of the people, and in particular the young people,” noting that “these young people looked amazing” [01:13:05]. Teenagers were even bringing their parents to church [01:14:06].
- Integrity of the Sermon: He appreciated the “architecture [and] the technology of sermon,” noting how the pastor could connect “profound theological points” with “secular analogy” while maintaining “integrity” [01:15:07]. This solidified his understanding that the church’s shared hierarchy of values and commitment to living those values were central to its health [01:16:03].
- Realization of Necessity: This embodied experience led him to a “crisis of conscience” [01:19:32]. He realized that cynically participating without genuinely embracing the church’s deeply held values would be “immoral” and “evil” [01:19:51]. This forced him to take Christianity seriously for the first time [01:20:09].
Core Christian Beliefs and Reconciliation
Hall’s commitment to Christianity meant grappling with fundamental tenets, which he addressed through deep study and personal reflection. His church holds traditional views, requiring members to agree with specific statements of belief for membership and baptism [01:37:37].
The Personal God and the Trinity
Hall now believes in “one and only living and true God” who is an “intelligent spiritual and personal” being [01:17:44]. He explained that his understanding of the Trinity (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) became a “logically necessary” and “generator function of any possible reality” [01:28:56] [01:30:33]. This conviction, stemming from philosophical and theological engagement, led him to accept the personal nature of God [01:25:52].
He emphasizes that the “essence of the Triune God is pure relationality,” considering “relationship more fundamental than relata” as an ontological primitive [01:26:49].
Human Creation and Gender Roles
He accepts that “man is the special creation of God Made In His Image,” though he doesn’t import a “creation institute’s interpretation” of what that means, suggesting a more nuanced view than strict young-earth creationism [01:35:09].
Regarding gender roles, he adheres to the belief that “a wife is to submit herself graciously to the servant leadership of her husband even as the church willingly submits to the leadership of Christ” [01:36:05]. He clarifies that this means the husband’s commitment is “vastly more significant,” entailing a responsibility to “step into those shoes” of Christ’s sacrifice for the church [01:36:51].
Abortion and Sin
His church believes “abortion is murder,” and Hall and his wife accept this, despite having had an abortion in the past, which was a “profoundly powerful and negative spiritual experience that almost shattered our marriage” [01:37:23].
He redefines “sin” not as inherently making one “sniveling or disgusting,” but as an “error,” “mistake,” “confusion,” or “consequence of bad habits” that leads one away from “living life well” [01:38:17]. He also rejects the common American Protestant image of a “mad and punishing God,” instead emphasizing a “loving God” whose “effort, intent, and hope…is to convey to us how do we humans navigate life well” [01:39:39]. Drawing on Orthodox thought, he states that “God is light and does not turn away from us,” but when humans turn away, they experience that light as “heat” [01:40:56].
Biblical Inerrancy
Hall accepts that “The Holy Bible was written by men divinely inspired and as God’s revelation of himself to man… it has God for its author… and truth without any mixture of error” [01:41:47]. He clarifies that perceived contradictions are often due to a “lack of… consciousness” on the reader’s part, requiring “to grow as a person to be able to grasp what’s actually being said” [01:43:07].
The Christian and the Social Order
His church’s statement on the social order, which says Christians should “seek to make the will of Christ Supreme in our lives and in human society,” sounds like theocracy [01:44:16]. However, Hall argues it is “very much not” theocracy, but rather its “exact inverse” [01:44:44]. He emphasizes the principle of “soul sovereignty,” meaning that it is “utterly inappropriate, immoral, wrong” to try to force another’s soul in any direction [01:45:56]. This perspective highlights a responsibility to “cooperate with God and to support the Kingdom of Heaven on Earth” by living out values fully in the world, rather than withdrawing from it [01:47:55]. This contrasts with “coherent pluralism” where diverse communities can choose their own values, because Hall believes in an objective “good” that humans strive to discern [01:50:50] [01:52:48].
The Cultivation of Faith
Hall defines faith as a “faculty” for “navigating a particular relationship with reality” [01:33:53]. He describes it as a “dimensional opening,” where, through practice (like prayer and fasting), one can discern new aspects of reality previously unnoticed [01:31:12]. He emphasizes that it’s a practice that can be cultivated, leading to an increasing capacity for a personal relationship with God [01:33:58].
The Future of Jordan Hall’s Journey
Hall views his commitment as a “lifelong exploration,” acknowledging his “late start” [01:54:42]. His future path involves:
- Discipleship: A deep commitment to living as deeply as possible in discipleship [01:55:04].
- Church Communion: Engaging in intimate relationship and communion with his church, including grappling with theological questions [01:55:09].
- Scaling without Dying: Addressing the challenge of growing the church (currently around 150 people) without losing its vitality [01:55:39].
- Community Participation: Properly participating in the health of his local, predominantly Christian town without imposing his own views [01:56:31].
- Sharing Wisdom: Speaking his wisdom and understanding to others who seek similar paths, particularly to his former “autistic technology agnostics” subtribe [01:56:57].
Hall seeks to understand and carry out his “vocation,” which may include continuing to think and work on civilization-level issues if it is his “cross to bear” [01:58:10].