From: jimruttshow8596
Forrest Landry’s work, particularly his concept of immanent philosophy, delves deeply into the fundamental nature of choice, setting it apart from more traditional philosophical approaches [01:02:42]. His approach is not about making up metaphysical concepts for belief or faith, but rather a serious attempt to build an understanding of the universe from basic fundamentals [01:54:01].
Why Study the Nature of Choice?
Landry emphasizes the importance of understanding the nature of choice due to its relevance in contemporary challenges, such as existential risk and civilization design [02:54:01]. These issues often relate back to ethical concerns and values [03:00:00]. Key questions guiding this inquiry include:
- What is the nature of choice? [03:04:01]
- How do we make choices? [03:06:01]
- Is choice even real? [03:08:01]
There is ongoing debate, particularly in the scientific community, regarding the notion of free will [03:17:01]. Landry’s work aims to understand these concepts to ground and make sense of choice-making, especially at community levels [03:32:01]. This includes conceiving of notions like goodness and choice itself, and establishing a basic methodology for knowing anything at all [03:50:01]. The ultimate goal is to enable better design and choice-making, both individually and collectively [04:18:01].
Metaphysical Definition of “Self” and Choice
Within Landry’s framework, the concept of “self” is meticulously defined as the product of all the choices one has made and all the choices one could make [01:15:01]. While appearing obscure, this definition offers utility for understanding downstream concepts [01:25:01]. This notion of self, characterized by choice, encompasses memory and capability, forming a “product space” that includes both actuality (what has been) and potentiality (what could be) [01:36:01].
The Philosophy of Consciousness and Choice is central to Landry’s immanent metaphysics [01:03:01]. He asserts that anything inherent in the essential nature of choice is applicable to every choice made [02:46:01]. Just as causation inherently involves time (a before and after state), choice also has fundamental attributes [02:59:01]. Identifying these intrinsic attributes of choice helps characterize the principles relevant for making good or wise choices [03:16:01].
Choice, Causation, and Change
Landry proposes a fundamental “triplicate” of concepts: perceiver, perceived, and perceiving [01:42:01]. Analogously, he introduces a triple of choice, change, and causation [01:56:01].
- Change helps understand the nature of relationship [02:01:01].
- Causation aids in understanding the nature of the object (objective reality) [02:03:01].
- Choice is crucial for understanding the nature of the subject (subjective experience) [02:06:01].
This perspective positions the relationship between the subjective and the objective as the primary subject of study [01:00:00]. Landry does not unconditionally posit objective existence (realism) or subjective existence (idealism), but rather asserts that the relationship between them is unconditional [01:01:14].
Distinction between Existence, Reality, and Objectivity
A critical distinction in Landry’s work is the difference between “to exist,” “to be real,” and “to be objective” [09:55:01]. While philosophical literature often overlaps these terms, Landry views them as three distinct claims [10:06:01]:
- Something existing is not necessarily real or objective [10:10:01].
- Something real might not exist in a conventional sense [10:11:01].
- Something objective might not exist [10:23:01].
These distinctions are vital for deep foundational inquiry [10:32:01].
Interaction as a Fundamental Concept
The notion of “interaction” is central to understanding choice. Unlike “relation,” which is atemporal (e.g., mathematics), “interaction” inherently includes a temporal element [31:52]. Information flows from the objective to the subjective during an interaction [32:14].
Landry posits that the concept of an observer is implied in the notion of interaction [34:49]. The process of knowing (epistemology) is more fundamental than the being of the objective or subjective (ontology) [35:18]. The moon example illustrates this: if one asserts determinism, the moon is already there without verification [36:47]. However, if there’s any indeterminism about something’s existence, an interaction is necessary to establish its existence [36:37]. Thus, interaction is more fundamental than existence, and even than creation [40:28]. The universe, in this view, can be understood as a combination of creation, existence, and interaction [41:00].
Reifying Power and Soundness
Landry introduces the concept of “reifying power” as a metric for evaluating metaphysics [49:50]. Reification, in this context, means clarifying vague relationships or concepts to make them more definite in their structural relationships [52:48]. A metaphysics with high reifying power produces concepts that clarify how to think up testable experiments [25:22], making them more useful and trustworthy [57:19].
He distinguishes between “validity” (mathematical proof within a system) and “soundness” [45:29]. While validity is about logical derivation, soundness is a practical concept concerning the correspondence between a mathematical model and an external domain [45:46]. Metaphysics and its axioms and modalities aim to provide a general notion of soundness for corresponding foundational concepts across different domains [46:56].
Process as a Primal Concept
Building on Descartes’ “I think, therefore I am,” Landry notes that Descartes established process (thinking) as the basis for being [01:34:01]. Landry extends this, arguing that anything intrinsic to the nature of doubt itself is also undoubtable [03:33:01]. This leads to the idea that the characteristics inherent in the nature of process itself are fundamental [04:30:01].
Process is regarded as the single most primal concept, as conception itself can be viewed as a process [04:45:01]. Comparison, measurement, and signaling are all manifestations of the underlying notion of process [05:13:01]. Landry’s work develops the idea that six core concepts (subject, object, sameness, difference, content, and context) completely subsume the notion of process or interaction [01:19:39].
Choice, Consciousness, and Temporality
Understanding consciousness as a process, Landry links it intrinsically to the concept of time [02:39:01]. It’s also bound to the concept of “hard random,” implying a notion of potentiality or probability over possibility [02:39:01]. The existence of a subjective experience is directly connected to this temporality, process, and the idea that other things could have happened [02:39:01].
Even with strong process correlations between consciousness and biology (like the analogy to the digestive system), the “hard problem” remains [02:39:01]. This problem concerns the selectivity of locality in time, space, and possibility – the symmetry breaking that localizes consciousness to a specific moment and possibility [02:39:01]. While physics can provide third-person models, it lacks the tools to explain how to move from a third-person orientation to a first-person perspective, which is crucial for understanding consciousness and choice [02:39:01].