From: jimruttshow8596
Lawrence Gonzalez, author of numerous award-winning books, is featured on the Jim Rut Show to discuss his acclaimed work, Deep Survival [00:00:31]. The book is described as a “furious artistic blend of autobiography, complexity science, cognitive science, cognitive neuroscience, all interwoven with many astounding and shocking true stories of survival” [00:02:19].
The Genesis of a Survivalist’s Mindset
Gonzalez’s interest in survival began in childhood, growing up with the incredible true story of his father’s last bomber mission during World War II [00:02:43]. His father, a B-17 bomber pilot, survived falling 27,000 feet after his plane was shot down over Germany in January 1945 [00:03:07], [00:32:00]. This near-miss with non-existence became an “existential thing” that shaped Gonzalez’s work [00:07:32].
Immersion in High-Stakes Professions
To understand survival, Gonzalez immersed himself in dangerous professions [00:08:00]. His experiences include:
- Firefighters: He spent time with Chicago firefighters in the mid-1980s, gaining their trust and even participating in putting out a burning house [00:08:48]. This experience was life-changing, leading him to work closely with firefighters across the country on decision-making processes and safety [00:10:01].
- Police: He rode along with the Washington D.C. police, including a tactical squad in high-crime areas, experiencing a burglary in progress where he was deputized and given a shotgun [00:11:07]. He also spent time with Illinois state’s attorneys police during drug busts in Chicago, even participating in a raid [00:12:29].
- Aviation: Driven by his father’s history, Gonzalez became an instrument commercial pilot, flying aerobatic and high-performance aircraft, fighter jets, and helicopters [00:14:40]. He also investigated airline crashes as a journalist starting in the early 1970s [00:15:14]. His distrust of the DC-10, based on his research, famously led him to avoid a flight that later crashed, killing everyone on board [00:25:54].
Key Concepts from Deep Survival
The Importance of “Being Cool”
A central theme in Deep Survival is the necessity of remaining calm and “being cool” in a crisis [00:15:40]. Emotions are referred to as “hot cognition,” which can impede clear thinking [00:15:52].
- Emotion vs. Reason: Emotion and reason operate like a seesaw in the brain [00:16:50]. Fear makes clear thinking difficult; conversely, concentrating on thinking clearly can reduce emotional intensity [00:16:57].
- Practical Application: The story of the USS Indianapolis officer, who had his men clean a pistol in shark-infested waters, illustrates how a deliberate, step-by-step, goal-oriented activity can help reorganize thoughts and overcome shock [00:17:11].
- Trainability: While only 10-20% of untrained people can naturally stay calm and think in a survival situation, this ability can be trained [00:19:17]. The key is to “practice in your daily life the way you would want to be in an emergency” [00:19:54]. People under high stress tend to fall back on already practiced behaviors, as seen in the FBI agent who practiced snatching a gun and returning it [00:20:07].
“A survivor builds up an account of commitment over a lifetime, the more he invests the more he has when trouble comes” [00:22:06].
Perceive and Believe
The first trait of survivors is “perceive and believe” [00:22:49]. This means acknowledging reality as it is, not as one wishes it to be [00:22:57]. This principle guided Gonzalez’s decision to cancel a trip to Santa Fe during the early stages of the coronavirus pandemic, recognizing its severity [00:23:27]. Acting on these beliefs, even against social norms, is crucial [00:28:02].
The Peril of Peer Group Pressure
Social pressure can significantly undermine correct actions in a crisis [00:28:49]. The irresistible pull of emotion and the herd mentality can lead people to ignore warnings, as exemplified by snowmobilers who triggered an avalanche while “high marking” despite being warned [00:29:00]. As social creatures, maintaining group status can override rational survival instincts [00:30:48]. However, humans have the capacity to think, and practicing thinking over reflex reacting improves survival chances [00:31:17].
Humor, Optimism, and Locus of Control
- Dark Humor: Individuals in high-risk professions like firefighters and Marines often develop a dark sense of humor [00:31:54]. This serves as a coping mechanism, detoxifying difficult experiences and reducing stress [00:32:18].
- Optimism and Immune System: Research on “learned helplessness” by Martin Seligman shows that an optimistic view of events, even negative ones, can improve immune system functioning [00:33:00].
- Locus of Control: Survivors tend to have an internal locus of control, viewing the world as something they can influence, rather than being victims of circumstance [00:34:07]. This perspective transforms “adversity into opportunity” [00:34:21].
The Dance Between Emotion and Reason
Cognitive neuroscience plays a crucial role in understanding survival. Antonio Damasio’s work demonstrates that without the ability to have an emotional response or “gut feeling,” humans lose the capacity to make cognitive decisions, as emotions provide a necessary “guiding service” [00:39:29]. This “night shift” of unconscious processing, as Cormac McCarthy called it, constantly takes in and processes information below the level of consciousness [00:40:42].
- Gut Feelings in Action: A story of a wildland firefighter illustrates this: an experienced firefighter, despite not being able to articulate why, trusted his “bad feeling” about a fire and left, surviving, while a younger, less experienced firefighter who descended into the fire died [00:41:41].
- When Emotion Misleads: However, emotions can also lead astray. Some scuba divers, for instance, drown by removing their masks underwater due to a deep emotional response to suffocation, overriding logical thought [00:43:09].
- Dynamic Tension: The optimal state involves a dynamic tension between emotion and reason, as seen in F-18 pilots performing night carrier landings [00:45:12]. Under immense stress, pilots must consciously repeat rules and visual cues (like keeping “the ball” at a certain height) while trusting their deeply ingrained training [00:46:51].
Who Survives (and Who Doesn’t)
Survival is not always intuitive.
- Humility: Rambo types are often the “first to go” [00:50:22]. Captain James GABA, an Army Ranger, drowned during a rafting trip after pushing away the guide’s help, demonstrating that specialized training does not guarantee survival in unfamiliar hazards [00:48:20]. Humility, regardless of expertise, is a crucial survival trait [00:50:30].
- Normalcy Bias and Risk-Reward: People often make excuses to rationalize dangerous decisions, like rafters continuing down a swollen river despite clear hazards [00:51:11]. This “normalcy bias” or “expert bias” can be lethal, as past successes don’t guarantee future safety [00:52:01]. The risk-reward loop emphasizes assessing the true cost of an action versus its perceived reward [00:53:02].
- Physical and Mental Impairment: Judgment degrades significantly when physically or mentally impaired by factors like hypothermia, dehydration, or fatigue [00:53:30]. The Mount Washington ice climbers, who died of exposure after making a series of poor decisions exacerbated by cold and exhaustion, exemplify this [00:54:02].
Understanding Fatigue
True “fatigue” is not just being tired; it’s a “deep systemic wound to the system” or a significant energy deficit that requires more than just sleep to recover from [00:56:50]. Army Rangers, who are pushed to extreme levels of fatigue in training, can sleep for weeks to recover [00:57:24]. In a survival situation, it’s crucial to avoid deep fatigue, often by taking it easy and not exceeding 60% of one’s capacity [00:59:03].
- Vito Sacchinis Story: This concept is perfectly embodied by Vito Sacchinis, who, after breaking his leg alone in Grand Teton National Park, calmly set up camp, made a hot meal, and then motivated himself by dedicating every hundred “scoots” (moving on his butt) towards something he loved back home [00:59:31]. This showcased a perfect blend of reason (systematic action, nourishing himself) and emotion (motivation to live for others) [01:01:01].
The Psychology of Being Lost
Being lost triggers a dire emergency response because humans are social creatures dependent on their group and knowing their environment for survival [01:18:46].
- Age and Panic: Interestingly, young children tend to survive being lost better than teenagers [01:20:22]. Kids don’t perceive themselves as “lost” (they think their mommy is lost) and instinctively follow natural survival behaviors like finding water or shelter [01:20:43]. Teenagers, having developed a sense of spatial awareness, often panic and “run themselves to death” [01:21:17].
- Degraded Cognition: Even experienced individuals can succumb to “mental constriction” and poor judgment when lost, as seen with Ken Killip, who went down the wrong drainage in Rocky Mountain National Park after becoming tired, dehydrated, and confused [01:13:35].
Positive Mental Attitude (PMA)
PMA, a term often used by the military, is at the core of survival [01:22:53]. It encompasses humor, optimism, and “being cool” [01:23:38]. Individuals with PMA view challenges, like the coronavirus pandemic, as opportunities rather than reasons for despair [01:24:05]. Survival situations are not voluntary, so a positive attitude is essential when they “look you in the eye” [01:24:36].
The Value of Survival Training
Gonzalez advocates for survival training as a vital part of education, potentially starting in junior high or even earlier, like teaching children how to safely use a knife or build a debris shelter [01:27:54].
- Primitive Survival: Courses like Mark Morley’s Vermont Wilderness Survival School teach how to create tools and fire from scratch, or track without a compass using unique natural signs [01:25:01]. These skills provide a “mental edge” even if never used in a real emergency [01:29:07].
- Resilience: Such training fosters mental strength and emotional resilience, counteracting the “hammock of abundance” in modern society [01:12:05].
Surviving Survival: The Aftermath of Trauma
Gonzalez’s follow-up book, Surviving Survival, explores the profound impact of extreme events on individuals [01:30:15]. He realized that rescue is not the end of the journey; surviving a traumatic event is a life-changing experience that often leads to PTSD, anxiety, and relationship issues [01:30:50]. The book serves as a guide to resilience, helping individuals reinvent their lives and figure out their “new life” after such an ordeal [01:31:36]. This is particularly relevant during global events like the coronavirus pandemic, where many will emerge to a changed world [01:32:03].
Complexity and Normal Accidents
Gonzalez discusses Charles Perrault’s concept of “normal accidents,” particularly in complex systems like nuclear power plants and airlines [01:06:29]. Perrault argued that such systems are so inherently complex that accidents are “built into the nature of the system” and cannot be entirely prevented by technical fixes [01:07:04]. Instead, accidents follow a power-law distribution, with many small mishaps and occasional huge ones [01:07:16].
This concept of emergence and complexity applies to social and biological systems, including the coronavirus pandemic, which can be seen as a “normal accident” of human interaction and modern travel [01:08:16]. The key takeaway is that while accidents will happen in complex systems, individuals can strategize to avoid being caught in them [01:09:03]. The Mount Hood mountaineering accident, where multiple roped groups were dragged down a mountain due to a single fall, serves as a stark example of how tightly coupled systems can lead to inevitable disasters [01:09:17]. These events can even “sweep up other elements into it,” as seen with the helicopter crash during the Mount Hood rescue attempt [01:10:47].