Balancing Manager and Maker Time for Entrepreneurs

From: alexhormozi

Productivity is defined as the money gained from the time invested [00:00:00]. This concept is crucial for entrepreneurs, as better time investment can lead to significant wealth accumulation [00:00:09]. The approach to time management, particularly for entrepreneurs, often involves juggling two distinct types of schedules: the manager schedule and the maker schedule [01:11:08]. These concepts, notably influenced by Paul Graham’s writings, are vital for optimizing time and maximizing returns [00:00:57].

The Manager Schedule

Managers divide their time into the smallest possible chunks, often scheduling 20+ segments per day, ranging from 5 to 90 minutes [01:33:04]. For managers, an empty time slot is considered a lost opportunity, representing time that didn’t yield a return on investment [01:43:00]. They view time as currency, with the primary cost being the coordination of schedules to find mutually available slots [01:51:00].

Manager Productivity

When a manager interacts with another manager, mutually filling a time slot tends to make both more productive, resulting in higher earnings [02:09:00].

Managers engage in various tasks throughout the day, such as collecting and reporting data, persuading, leading, training, encouraging, and making decisions both individually and in groups [02:17:00]. Their day typically begins when they start preparing for meetings (30-60 minutes prior) and concludes after their last meeting [02:32:00]. The duration of their workday is directly proportional to the length of their meetings [02:48:00]. The main objective for a manager is to utilize all available time chunks, making a fully booked day a maximally invested and productive one [02:55:00].

The Maker Schedule

The maker schedule is less commonly understood but is where creators and entrepreneurs achieve the highest returns on their time [03:13:00]. A significant portion of an entrepreneur’s time should be dedicated to “making stuff” – engaging in deep work that moves the business forward [03:32:00]. These tasks are often not urgent but are incredibly important, representing the activities that create substantial long-term progress [03:40:00].

Examples of maker work include developing software, editing videos, writing books, or creating ad copy [04:15:00]. This type of work involves creating something that didn’t exist before and is “incredibly expensive” in terms of time [04:37:00]. Unlike managers, makers operate with a few large time chunks rather than many small slivers [04:51:00].

The Impact of Interruptions

Interruptions, such as a short meeting, can disrupt a 4-hour block, making it difficult for makers to return to their work [04:59:00]. The “Zernick effect” describes how open loops, like upcoming meetings, consume mental energy, preventing focus on current tasks [05:17:00].

For makers, the output is the actual product or thing they build, not decisions or coordination [05:41:00]. They “work off meetings,” focusing on projects that cannot be completed in short increments and may span weeks or months [05:53:00]. Makers often have a set start time but variable end times, as they strive to stay in a “flow” state as long as possible [06:06:00]. A typical maker’s day might involve one to three 4-6 hour chunks, usually a morning block and a post-lunch block [06:34:00].

The Disruption of Maker Productivity

When a manager schedules a single meeting in a maker’s morning, it can “blow” one of their critical work blocks, potentially taking 10% of their total weekly output [07:00:00]. This means that while a manager may feel more productive from the meeting, they are inadvertently destroying a maker’s productivity [07:10:00]. Makers often end their day feeling like their time was spent without tangible returns, leading to business stagnation [07:28:00].

Empty Calendars for Makers

For a maker, an empty time slot is not a lost opportunity; it is the opportunity to achieve significant returns [07:44:00]. An empty calendar can fill a maker with energy, signifying a maximally productive day [08:04:00].

The Conflict Between Makers and Managers

The core issue arises when managers and makers interact [08:48:00]. Managers, accustomed to their own schedule, often assume makers can work “on demand” [09:06:00]. They might see an empty calendar and mistakenly believe a maker is not working, applying their own metrics of productivity [09:12:00].

A short meeting might cost a manager one of their 20+ daily work units, an easily spared amount [09:28:00]. However, for a maker, the same meeting consumes one of their crucial 1-2 daily time slots, potentially ruining an entire day’s focus [09:37:00]. Furthermore, if a maker is falling behind, a manager’s solution might be to interrupt them more, creating a vicious cycle where check-ins prevent the actual work from getting done [10:01:00]. Both parties lose in this scenario, as the maker isn’t producing what’s needed, impacting the manager’s output responsibility [10:23:00].

This dynamic presents a dilemma for makers:

1. Refuse the meeting: This can offend the manager, damage relationships, and decrease future collaboration, risking goodwill [10:52:00].
2. Accept the meeting: This destroys half or an entire day of deep work, often for meetings with no clear agenda or yield [11:29:00].

The speaker emphasizes a ruthless approach to time, protecting maker time to achieve accomplishments, which in turn attracts connections and opportunities later [12:37:00].

Entrepreneurial Roles

While some roles, like CEO or COO, naturally require more manager-style coordination and decision-making, it’s crucial to acknowledge this difference in job function [13:45:00]. An entrepreneur might have more maker days, while an operator might have more manager days, but both need an understanding of both modes [14:11:00].

Solutions for Managers

To address the conflict and optimize productivity, managers should take specific steps:

• Understand the Costs Imposed on Makers: Be aware that coordinating a meeting disrupts a maker twice: once for scheduling and again during the meeting itself [01:58:00]. A meeting costs a maker 10 times more than it costs a manager [01:29:00]. Managers must ensure any ad-hoc or impromptu meeting is truly worth the disruption, prioritizing scheduled communication cadences if possible [16:39:00].
• Value the “Maker’s No”: If a maker declines a meeting, managers should not take offense [17:00:00]. Instead, view it as the maker upholding a larger commitment to the company by focusing on meaningful work [17:15:00]. Managers can frame a meeting’s importance and give makers time to prepare if their insight is truly critical [17:37:00].
• Ask Teams for Ideal Workdays: Engage teams by asking what a “maximally productive day” or “perfect weekly calendar” looks like for them [17:52:00]. For example, an editing team might suggest bunching all meetings on specific days to keep others free for deep work [18:09:00].
• Recognize Non-Simultaneous Work: Understand that much work doesn’t require simultaneous collaboration; tasks can be completed independently as long as deadlines are met [18:49:00]. This allows managers to fill their schedules with other non-maker-related meetings [18:37:00].

Solutions for Makers

Makers also have responsibilities in this dynamic:

• Communicate Work Style: Educate managers and teammates about the nature of maker work, even sharing content like this article to help them understand [19:10:00].
• Convert Interrupted Time: If a meeting is unavoidable and breaks a maker block, use that entire block as a manager block [19:40:00]. Stack as many ad-hoc or impromptu meetings as possible into that segment to maximize its utility [19:50:00]. The goal is to switch between productive modes rather than being fixed in one [20:09:00].
• Establish Standard Meeting Times: Designate specific days or afternoons as open for meetings (e.g., Monday and Thursday afternoons) [20:28:00]. Politely request that meeting requests align with these blocks, as true urgency is rare [20:53:00]. Leave some empty slots within these designated meeting times for inevitable ad-hoc requests [21:06:00].
• Prioritize Maker Time Early: For early-stage entrepreneurs, dedicating nights, weekends, or early mornings to maker time is crucial for building foundational assets and systems [21:21:00]. This deep work allows for scaling beyond a single location [22:04:00]. As influence grows, others can begin protecting this time [22:36:00].
  • V1 (Early Stage): Work double time (e.g., 5 morning maker blocks, 4 weekend maker blocks) in addition to regular client/manager tasks [23:37:00].
  • V2 (Intermediate): Implement a 50/50 split, with the first half of the day dedicated to maker work and the second half to manager tasks, scheduling meetings from back to front [23:18:00].
  • V3 (Advanced): Achieve entire maker days (2-4 per week), stacking all meetings, introductions, and organizational decisions into dedicated manager days [24:25:00].
• Communicate Unresponsiveness: Clearly inform colleagues when you will be slow to respond, particularly during maker blocks [24:54:00]. People adapt well to clear expectations [25:00:00].
• Deliver on Maker Time: If granted protected maker time, use it diligently [25:25:00]. Failing to do so confirms manager suspicions that empty calendars equate to idleness [25:39:00].
• Self-Awareness and Flexibility: Makers should gauge their energy levels [28:34:00]. If feeling uninspired, it might be a good day for meetings. If in a flow state, it’s worth asking to reschedule meetings [28:48:00]. Using phrases like “I’m putting my maker hat on” or “manager hat” can provide a clear mental cue for oneself and the team [29:43:00].

Solutions for Organizations

Organizations can embed these principles into their culture:

• Mandate Quiet Time: Implement designated “quiet times” on the calendar where entire teams cannot message or meet [26:45:00]. This can be a specific time block each day or full quiet days (e.g., Wednesdays for the editing team) [26:57:00]. This typically applies to roles with significant maker components (engineers, developers, copywriters, editors, writers, presenters, media) [27:11:00].
• Address Remote Work: In remote settings, where direct observation of work isn’t possible, a higher degree of trust is needed [27:29:00]. Measure output and set clear deadlines, removing obstacles to allow individuals to work [28:21:00].
• Foster Meeting Efficiency: Cultivate a culture where meetings are viewed as costly and should be audited regularly [33:37:00]. Leaders should consistently ask if a meeting is necessary or if a process/person could replace it [33:40:00]. Encourage attendees to leave meetings if they are not adding or gaining value, as this returns valuable time to the company [34:31:00].
  • Consider the true monetary cost of meetings. A 10-person, one-hour call with individuals earning $50,000-$100,000 annually can cost $400-$500 per hour, an expense often overlooked [34:42:00].
• Disseminate Knowledge: Spread content that explains the maker-manager dynamic to both managers and makers across the organization [35:34:00]. This shared language helps identify and prevent waste, leading to higher returns on human capital through increased happiness, retention, output, and work quality [35:48:00].

By implementing these strategies, organizations can increase awareness of different working styles, put words to common frustrations, and ultimately achieve higher productivity and employee satisfaction [36:20:00].